MKX Tier List Presented by YOMI (Rv1.0)

[SEV]

Covert Ops: 50/50s into 50/50s

Hence why it's the best.

Covert Ops 50/50's into 50/50's up-play is real. Look at Military Stance frame data: 8 frame low, 22 frame overhead; block low, react to the overhead, block and punish or react to the cancel with pressure. You don't need to reversal or poke out. Just lab it, play calmly and it should never open you up, or at least the second "50/50" shouldn't.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Demolition = High meterless damage mid-screen.
Special Forces = Good pressure and good match pace.
CO= I don't see what is good with it

Covert Ops gets 2 50/50's every time you're in a block string. Her b14 string is something you need to actively block (OH to low) and then you get another 50/50 into this. No need to reload, no need to set up. Plus the parry is a total mental killer. If you just ate a 30% combo, did a wake up to have it parried, eat another 30% combo, you've just given up the match unless you had some insane life lead.

Saying Covert Ops is the worst variation is... questionable. Demo you get good meterless damage, but instead you used all 3 grenades to hit 35% when covert ops gets ~30% with no set up, dropping them on you to continue pressure (so the flawless potential is real) insetad of full screen to try to reload again.

All of this theory talk where "My character has so many tools!" totally ignores the tools other characters have and how nonsense it is to list out all the positive traits of a character and say it's obviously better. Look to the actual match ups, look to how games shake out. Covert Ops is about controlling the pace and getting inside their head. If they have to guess 2 or 3 times every time I'm in, they're going to guess wrong A LOT, and that means damage for Sonya.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Covert Ops 50/50's into 50/50's up-play is real. Look at Military Stance frame data: 8 frame low, 22 frame overhead; block low, react to overhead, block and punish or react to the cancel with pressure. You don't need to reversal or poke out. Just lab it, play calmly and it should never open you up, or at least the second "50/50" shouldn't.

The thing no one has NEEDED to do yet because people still are having difficulty reacting to military stance options is to just cancel. It's not amazing frame advantage at all; BUT if they're sitting there waiting to block again, they're not pushing buttons. You can also cartwheel out of MS to break armor and launch into normal ender. OR you can end strings with her EX Arc Kick to break armor on a read. She has tools, the game should be reactive and dynamic. There is no brain dead fuzzy guard that Covert Ops just loses to.

 

[Slips]

Scorpion is mid tier. Finally, I can start entering tournaments and feel good if I do well.

 

[Bildslash]

Why? Each variation shouldn't be looked at as its own character. If you've got a dominant variation but your other variations cover your bad match-ups, you're a great character. You don't need to rank each one separately, never mind the fact that it would be an absolute clusterfuck.

Except when you have characters like Tanya, Subzero, Kung Jin, Cassie, Shinnok, to name a few, that actually pretty very differently across variations.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Covert Ops 50/50's into 50/50's up-play is real. Look at Military Stance frame data: 8 frame low, 22 frame overhead; block low, react to the overhead, block and punish or react to the cancel with pressure. You don't need to reversal or poke out. Just lab it, play calmly and it should never open you up, or at least the second "50/50" shouldn't.

But there's also the command grab and the initial overhead or low starter. There's plenty of things to get caught by.

 

[Forr]

He isn't top 10. What most people don't realize is that he does not get a guaranteed mixup after hell sparks, the only thing guaranteed option is the low. If he does ANYTHING else, the opponent can backdash or armor to blow him up. He spends a bar on hell sparks to put himself at risk. Shinnok also has a ton of trouble safely building meter except in boneshaper where his footises are not as strong because he loses his F2 string. Most people do not play this match correctly.

You are misinformed. Shinnok CAN get a guarenteed 50/50 off of hell sparks. Simply meterburn the first spark and do a quick run cancel. If done correctly both overhead and low are guaranteed.

 

[SEV]

The thing no one has NEEDED to do yet because people still are having difficulty reacting to military stance options is to just cancel. It's not amazing frame advantage at all; BUT if they're sitting there waiting to block again, they're not pushing buttons. You can also cartwheel again to break armor. OR you can end strings with her EX Arc Kick to break armor on a read. She has tools, the game because reactive and dynamic. There is no brain dead fuzzy guard the Covert Ops just loses to.

It's not a fuzzy guard; respect the 8 frame low, react to the 22 frame overhead. 22 frames is enough to react to and both options on block are punishable. Lab Military Stance and become familiar with the cancel animation and if you see them cancel you start pressure.

Sure they can cancel into armor but eating an exAK is better than being launched into HKD and you make her come off a bar of meter. And at that point you may as well be in one of her other variations that can use drone or grenade cancels to be able to go for another 50/50 that launches and leads to a HKD while having the other benefits of those variations too.

But there's also the command grab and the initial overhead or low starter. There's plenty of things to get caught by.

The command grab whiffs if you're blocking low, just block low to cover both the low and command grab options, react to the overhead or cancel. I'll give that reacting to the cancel of MS may be difficult, but the point of her having a 50/50 into another legitimate 50/50 from MS is lost upon me.

 

[Agilaz]

Guess we can't have a MK game where Kung Lao isn't top tier. Oh well.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Takeda is why I've stopped playing this game

Do you main him or is it just a tough match for you?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

He isn't top 10. What most people don't realize is that he does not get a guaranteed mixup after hell sparks, the only thing guaranteed option is the low. If he does ANYTHING else, the opponent can backdash or armor to blow him up. He spends a bar on hell sparks to put himself at risk. Shinnok also has a ton of trouble safely building meter except in boneshaper where his footises are not as strong because he loses his F2 string. Most people do not play this match correctly.

Thats the mixup though, you shouldnt be punished for guessing wrong against that sorta thing.

- Will he do something guaranteed? Block low
- Or not? Do something else.

He spends a bar to put himself in a massively advantageous situation. Thats a really unfair statement to make. A backdash wont 'blow him up' cause who can backdash and still whiff punish? The armour is also a read. A risk on the player using it, more so than on the player who could get hit by it.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

@SEV I agree with you, that is how you should deal with it. However, it's difficult enough to react to for a lot of people, especially in the context of Tournament jitters/etc. There's nothing there that is insane or god-like, and it's a pretty weak second 50/50. However, I can delay the low, I can yolo OH and it still works a surprising amount of the time. Not saying that will last going forward once the game is more than just a few months old, but now it's still really effective.

Effective to the point where I would say it's not worthless and another variation just does everything better. Sonya doesn't really have the same block string off Drone like a Lao or Liu do, so it's just 'safe strings' she can cover. Doesn't buy her extra pressure. Demo honestly looks cool, but getting caught w/o grenades means you're a limp dog for a long time, and your opponent KNOWS it too.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Thats the mixup though, you shouldnt be punished for guessing wrong against that sorta thing.

- Will he do something guaranteed? Block low
- Or not? Do something else.

He spends a bar to put himself in a massively advantageous situation. Thats a really unfair statement to make. A backdash wont 'blow him up' cause who can backdash and still whiff punish? The armour is also a read. A risk on the player using it, more so than on the player who could get hit by it.

Either way, shinnok is taking a risk by doing anything other than the low, a risk that does not favor him because of his damage.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

I got laughed at for saying FT was possibly bottom 5 to 7 at versus. Then they proceed to place him as the 6th worse character. Wtf

 

[dotunderscore]

Covert Ops gets 2 50/50's every time you're in a block string. Her b14 string is something you need to actively block (OH to low) and then you get another 50/50 into this. No need to reload, no need to set up. Plus the parry is a total mental killer. If you just ate a 30% combo, did a wake up to have it parried, eat another 30% combo, you've just given up the match unless you had some insane life lead.

Also she always has meter to break/Xray or throw MB (which is another direct path to 25/25/25/25 town)

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Let's also not forget, shinnok needs bar to convert his combos to meaningful damage. Where is he getting all of this bar from? Sparks, one of his best meter building tools, are unsafe.

 

[Colares]

Guess we can't have a MK game where Kung Lao isn't top tier. Oh well.

Is there tier list for Shaolin Monks? I want to know now

Also she always has meter to break/Xray or throw MB (which is another direct path to 25/25/25/25 town)

Any variation I believe she doesn't use meter while in demo she gain access to ex drone call and good damage post x-ray. Special I don't know if any ex are good

 

[InFlames]

Okay not even I can support this extreme downplaying.

Sand Trap is still very good, 21122 is still a great pressure string, his overhead can be made safer with OSes, and he's still a top 10 character. I'd say he's around Cassie's level - which is funny because I main both of them. I'm not used to being this high up on the tier list 0.O

hes right tho, buff erron just in case

 

[Braindead]

Let's also not forget, shinnok needs bar to convert his combos to meaningful damage. Where is he getting all of this bar from? Sparks, one of his best meter building tools, are unsafe.

You can also build meter by getting hit

 

[Derptile]

Shinnok is probably not top 10 but he's definitely around MoS Ermac level. To me they both feel like they are tied on a tier list.

Lol spectral and mystic

 

[Fallen_sektor]

@YOMI DJT Could you expand on Tanya please?

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watch ceo top 8

 

[NissanZaxima]

I don't think a lot of people in this thread know what a "mixup" or a "50/50" is

 

[D. R.]

Either I'm a mother fucking gifted player for placing top 5 with essentially a nonexistent Orlando scene or Shinnok (BS) is top 10.

Either choice, win/win for me.

 

[Death]

I don't think a lot of people in this thread know what a "mixup" or a "50/50" is

How about you enlighten us?

 

[snort]

Let's also not forget, shinnok needs bar to convert his combos to meaningful damage. Where is he getting all of this bar from? Sparks, one of his best meter building tools, are unsafe.

This right here. Shinnoks damage isn't good and only gets decent with a bar. Building meter isn't his strong point and its bad because he needs meter to be effective against high level players. His overhead is slow and will get blown up to smithereens on block and hell sparks at close range is non existent unless you burn a bar.