Hey everyone -- this isn't intended to be a guide, as it's very early and a lot is still being figured out. Also, I am by no means an expert! So this is targeted at Takeda beginners. It's just a collection of some rudimentary, early observations about Takeda. The goal is to open some discussion about things to look out for, and uses for basic normals and moves.
Disclaimer: not all of the frame data as listed in this game is correct at this point -- so if I'm not giving exact frames, just know that what you see in the Moves menu might be a little off, and you shouldn't depend on it being frame-exact. Also any of this stuff is subject to change with early hotfixes, etc., or just more careful experimentation.
Here we go:
KEY ITEMS:
Kunai - Low projectile, recovers very quickly when thrown, does a decent chunk of damage on hit (7% listed) and is slight advantage on block, 20+ frames advantage on hit.
b2 - His one overhead normal in Shirai Ryu. Starts up in 20+ frames. A long combo starter that hits from about 65% screen. *Does not anti-air
f1 - 11-frame short-advancing Combo starter
f3 - A quick, 10-frame advancing double-kick, listed as 0 on block. Not a starter, but it's a great check. A lot of times even when the first hit is slightly our of range, the second hit will land. No pushback though -- so that's something to be aware on block, given the slower speed of his pokes.
b3 - A 20-ish frame, advancing low kick. Excellent range, and is deceptive given that the start of it could be confused for a dash or some other kind of movement.
nj1/nj2 - An excellent jumping normal, with huge vertical range. Although it's a mid on the way up, coming down it's an overhead, and seems to do enough advatage that it can't be easily mashed out of. Some of the follouwps can be backdashed or ducked, but people won't be poking out.
j4 - A big, leaping kick with deceptive range. He extends his leg and foot out pretty far; so it can catch opponents who think you're not close enough to reach, can stuff a bunch of anti airs when spaced properly, and will beat out a number of jumping attacks. (Along with j3, Takeda can full combo from j4 by linking it to normal teleport and then continuing the juggle on the ground).
RANGE:
The most attractive part of Takeda for many people who saw him in the early demos, was probably his range. There were a lot of comments of "broke footsies", etc. There are some important things to know:
His overhead starter, b2, is a terrific normal. It comes with "strings attached", however. For example, although b2 will hit along the entire length of his whip against a grounded opponent, *it can be jumped through*. It is not an anti air, so given that it has a 20+ frame startup, you'll need to space it well and make sure you're keeping an eye on the airspace.
b21, his key overhead starter string, is highly negative and punishable on block by itself: so as of now it looks like you'll typically want to cancel into Kunai in order to make it safe. One thing to be aware of though, is that it's possible to armor through b21~kunai after b21; so this means you'll want to mix it up with stuff like b2~kunai in order to keep your opponent on their toes. It's possible to do the full b21,2+4 on a hard read if you expect your opponent to try to interrupt after b21 -- but it's very punishable on block, so it's not something you'd want to do often.
b21 is also a very slow-executing string once it starts up -- so it's something we'll have to be aware of 1) In footsie range, because a lot of characters in the game have very fast, very far-advancing normals and strings; and 2) Against teleport, divekick, or other quick-mobility characters. The Kunai helps balance this out, as you can use the Kunai as a check in footsie range to stop people who are trying to move in quickly, and get enough advantage on hit to control them with a b2 or other followup.
b3 is very useful when it's spaced well, as it covers a lot of ground and hits low. b3 cancelled into close Kunai will leave you at slight advantage on block, or big advantage on hit, so so far I've been mixing it up with b2~kunai, b21~kunai, and f3. You could also occasionally go into the full b3, 3, which hits low, low and ends in an untechable knockdown (not a ton of advantage on hit, though).
POKES:
The close-range game seems to be one of the trickiest parts of playing Takeda. In close, he has a 10-frame d1, 11-frame f1 and f2, 11-frame d3 and 15-frame d4. As a number of characters in the game have 5/6/7-frame pokes and other quick normals, this can make escaping tricky when you're in a tight spot at point-blank range.
Like a lot of d4's in the game, his d4 has a good deal of advantage on hit (it's listed as 17 frames). It has deceptive range, and also a good deal of pushback on hit, meaning that if you land it, you're at a good distance for a b2, or to control the space/check with f3 (the second hit will land at that distance) or Kunai. But lot of other characters have much faster d4's that will beat it out in a pinch; so like everything else, you'll have to space/time it well.
Throw starts up in 9 frames and has priority over some normals, so it's a fairly important tool in-close given the slowness of his pokes.
ARMOR (new):
(Shirai Ryu)
Enhanced Flurry has armor on startup
Enhanced Air Tornado Strike has a hit of armor (on startup frames only)
Enhanced teleport does not have armor when used standing. It gains a hit of armor on wakeup only.
Enhanded Spear Ruy does not have armor at any time
MOBILITY:
Takeda's teleport is negative and punishable. A grounded teleport goes straight into a punch animation, which is a fairly easy punish as it probably should be (it's listed as -16). The air teleport will whiff and leave you next to them. The enhanced version juggles for a big pop-up when grounded, and a quicker, lower pop-up from the air. You can hold his teleport, and you can't dash out of it, but you can cancel it by pressing down, down in exchange for a bar of stamina.
Important Update: Takeda's enhanced/MB tele is also unsafe -- about -12 according to my testing despite being listed as 0 on block. It also does not seem to have armor, which is key to be aware of. If you're thinking "When I'm in a jam, I'll EX teleport out", this is important to know. A lot of characters' normals will beat you right out of the startup of EN tele and you'll lose the meter; so you'll probably need to poke first, or time it well. It also may have armor on wakeup only -- like scorpions EN tele -- but we'll need to test that out. In any case, it's not a "get out of jail free card" and will be punished by opponents who know the matchup.
His Air Tornado Strike (the spinning flipckick/flipdrop) hits overhead, but is highly negative on block and also has a ton of recovery on whiff; so you won't be using it to get around. The enhanced version has armor, but the regular version will be hit out of the air. When testing it out I was regularly been hit out of it by happenstance by various other strings with large hitboxes, jumping normals, etc., similar to Ares' God Smack in IGAU (and in testing, a perfectly-timed d2 will even hit him out of the enhanced version). It'll be interesting to see if people find good uses for it.
His Air Spear comes out very quickly and is good for punishing opponents who don't respect your air authority; but as with a lot of air specials in MKX, it has a very long recovery period on both block and whiff after you hit the ground. So it's not something you'll want to throw out unless you're reading that your opponent will move. j3 links into air spear, which can be useful in air to airs or jump ins (It's not an option select though, so be careful on block).
His dash has a decent amount of recovery before you can attack again; but since the Run option has now opened up the MKX movement metagame, you can do things like run-up spaced b3, run-up f3 etc. which cover a LOT of space in a short amount of time (and once you've established that, a short run-cancel into b2, etc.). Mixing the threat of the long-range overhead, with the naked Kunais, and run into b3~kunai, etc. gives him a good degree of space control. And when you read that your opponent wants to move, then you can hit them with the MB Tele for a combo.
GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Enhanced/MB Kunai throws 3 exploding, low-hitting Kunai onto the ground, where they'll stay for about 2.5 seconds or until you release the 1 button. At this point, it seems like you can also release the Kunai while in either block or hitstun, which is cool. I'm sure people will find lots of setups with EN kunai into overhead with various timings. If your opponent is attempting to move or attack when the Kunai's come out, you can just let them explode quickly.
Update: Of the 3 Kunai planted by MB Kunai, the front two won't give you a significant popup on hit -- but the back two will; so you're able to quickly connect a teleport for combo if the back two Kunai hit. This also means that strings/normals with slight pushback on hit (like f12 and b3) will allow you to continue the combo with MB kunai into tele.
f12 is a solid advancing footsie string (think about some of Liu Kang's footsie normals in MK9) that's slightly negative on block by itself, and can continue into f12,2+4. The first hit of f12,2+4 can be cancelled out of, so you can do things like f12,2+4 (1st hit)~Close Kunai, or cancel the first hit into regular tele on hit for a juggle. Although f12,2+4 alone is high negative on block, it also links to specials after the full 2 hits of 2+4; so you can do things like f12,2+4~MB tele and it'll combo.
The second hit of the 2+4 part is overhead -- so cancelling the first hit into Close Kunai vs. letting the 2nd hit go through and cancelling to something like MB tele is something your opponent will have to watch out for.
You're also able to do f1,2+4, which ends the same way. So I imagine that once people get familiar with the character, there will be all kinds of shenanigans mixing up f12, f1,2+4, f12,2+4 etc. cancelled into different things at different points to keep opponents off-guard when blocking.
f21 seems to be his other good starter -- although it doesn't quite have the range of f12, it's only slightly negative on block by itself (listed at -2) and decently easy to confirm into enhanced grapple, enhanced tele, or whatever you want.
His 7-frame uppercut is great for an easy anti-air. I tried a lot of his other standing normals, but they were pretty handily stuffed by various jumping attacks. Unlike b21, b11 and 21 *will* anti-air, but they're fairly slow.
Update: As far as air-to-air, he can link j1/j3 to regular teleport, and then juggle afterwards.
334 ends in a safe overhead with a hard/untechable knockdown; so your opponent would have to guess between that and 33~close kunai hitting low.
Fist Flurry (his advancing flurry of punches) has armor in its enhanced version -- but it's highly punishable on block. So you can use it sometimes to armor out of of a jam, but you need to consider when you'll throw it out.
Spear Ryu is the equivalent of Batman's grapple from Injustice -- and similarly, highly punishable and best used extremely wisely or as a combo extender and/or ender. The enhanced version pops your opponent up for a juggle (so you can run forward to juggle, or use the regular teleport to continue the combo).
MOVING FORWARD:
So again, this is by no means a guide to the character, but it's a start. Feel free to blow me up, point out things that are wrong, etc. and I'll make corrections; but hopefully this will help some of you who are thinking about picking him up.
I'm looking forward to seeing all the great information and tech people spin out with him in the next couple weeks. I'm sure some of you may be farther along and already have a list of setups, etc.
Post and let us know what you find!
Disclaimer: not all of the frame data as listed in this game is correct at this point -- so if I'm not giving exact frames, just know that what you see in the Moves menu might be a little off, and you shouldn't depend on it being frame-exact. Also any of this stuff is subject to change with early hotfixes, etc., or just more careful experimentation.
Here we go:
KEY ITEMS:
Kunai - Low projectile, recovers very quickly when thrown, does a decent chunk of damage on hit (7% listed) and is slight advantage on block, 20+ frames advantage on hit.
b2 - His one overhead normal in Shirai Ryu. Starts up in 20+ frames. A long combo starter that hits from about 65% screen. *Does not anti-air
f1 - 11-frame short-advancing Combo starter
f3 - A quick, 10-frame advancing double-kick, listed as 0 on block. Not a starter, but it's a great check. A lot of times even when the first hit is slightly our of range, the second hit will land. No pushback though -- so that's something to be aware on block, given the slower speed of his pokes.
b3 - A 20-ish frame, advancing low kick. Excellent range, and is deceptive given that the start of it could be confused for a dash or some other kind of movement.
nj1/nj2 - An excellent jumping normal, with huge vertical range. Although it's a mid on the way up, coming down it's an overhead, and seems to do enough advatage that it can't be easily mashed out of. Some of the follouwps can be backdashed or ducked, but people won't be poking out.
j4 - A big, leaping kick with deceptive range. He extends his leg and foot out pretty far; so it can catch opponents who think you're not close enough to reach, can stuff a bunch of anti airs when spaced properly, and will beat out a number of jumping attacks. (Along with j3, Takeda can full combo from j4 by linking it to normal teleport and then continuing the juggle on the ground).
RANGE:
The most attractive part of Takeda for many people who saw him in the early demos, was probably his range. There were a lot of comments of "broke footsies", etc. There are some important things to know:
His overhead starter, b2, is a terrific normal. It comes with "strings attached", however. For example, although b2 will hit along the entire length of his whip against a grounded opponent, *it can be jumped through*. It is not an anti air, so given that it has a 20+ frame startup, you'll need to space it well and make sure you're keeping an eye on the airspace.
b21, his key overhead starter string, is highly negative and punishable on block by itself: so as of now it looks like you'll typically want to cancel into Kunai in order to make it safe. One thing to be aware of though, is that it's possible to armor through b21~kunai after b21; so this means you'll want to mix it up with stuff like b2~kunai in order to keep your opponent on their toes. It's possible to do the full b21,2+4 on a hard read if you expect your opponent to try to interrupt after b21 -- but it's very punishable on block, so it's not something you'd want to do often.
b21 is also a very slow-executing string once it starts up -- so it's something we'll have to be aware of 1) In footsie range, because a lot of characters in the game have very fast, very far-advancing normals and strings; and 2) Against teleport, divekick, or other quick-mobility characters. The Kunai helps balance this out, as you can use the Kunai as a check in footsie range to stop people who are trying to move in quickly, and get enough advantage on hit to control them with a b2 or other followup.
b3 is very useful when it's spaced well, as it covers a lot of ground and hits low. b3 cancelled into close Kunai will leave you at slight advantage on block, or big advantage on hit, so so far I've been mixing it up with b2~kunai, b21~kunai, and f3. You could also occasionally go into the full b3, 3, which hits low, low and ends in an untechable knockdown (not a ton of advantage on hit, though).
POKES:
The close-range game seems to be one of the trickiest parts of playing Takeda. In close, he has a 10-frame d1, 11-frame f1 and f2, 11-frame d3 and 15-frame d4. As a number of characters in the game have 5/6/7-frame pokes and other quick normals, this can make escaping tricky when you're in a tight spot at point-blank range.
Like a lot of d4's in the game, his d4 has a good deal of advantage on hit (it's listed as 17 frames). It has deceptive range, and also a good deal of pushback on hit, meaning that if you land it, you're at a good distance for a b2, or to control the space/check with f3 (the second hit will land at that distance) or Kunai. But lot of other characters have much faster d4's that will beat it out in a pinch; so like everything else, you'll have to space/time it well.
Throw starts up in 9 frames and has priority over some normals, so it's a fairly important tool in-close given the slowness of his pokes.
ARMOR (new):
(Shirai Ryu)
Enhanced Flurry has armor on startup
Enhanced Air Tornado Strike has a hit of armor (on startup frames only)
Enhanced teleport does not have armor when used standing. It gains a hit of armor on wakeup only.
Enhanded Spear Ruy does not have armor at any time
MOBILITY:
Takeda's teleport is negative and punishable. A grounded teleport goes straight into a punch animation, which is a fairly easy punish as it probably should be (it's listed as -16). The air teleport will whiff and leave you next to them. The enhanced version juggles for a big pop-up when grounded, and a quicker, lower pop-up from the air. You can hold his teleport, and you can't dash out of it, but you can cancel it by pressing down, down in exchange for a bar of stamina.
Important Update: Takeda's enhanced/MB tele is also unsafe -- about -12 according to my testing despite being listed as 0 on block. It also does not seem to have armor, which is key to be aware of. If you're thinking "When I'm in a jam, I'll EX teleport out", this is important to know. A lot of characters' normals will beat you right out of the startup of EN tele and you'll lose the meter; so you'll probably need to poke first, or time it well. It also may have armor on wakeup only -- like scorpions EN tele -- but we'll need to test that out. In any case, it's not a "get out of jail free card" and will be punished by opponents who know the matchup.
His Air Tornado Strike (the spinning flipckick/flipdrop) hits overhead, but is highly negative on block and also has a ton of recovery on whiff; so you won't be using it to get around. The enhanced version has armor, but the regular version will be hit out of the air. When testing it out I was regularly been hit out of it by happenstance by various other strings with large hitboxes, jumping normals, etc., similar to Ares' God Smack in IGAU (and in testing, a perfectly-timed d2 will even hit him out of the enhanced version). It'll be interesting to see if people find good uses for it.
His Air Spear comes out very quickly and is good for punishing opponents who don't respect your air authority; but as with a lot of air specials in MKX, it has a very long recovery period on both block and whiff after you hit the ground. So it's not something you'll want to throw out unless you're reading that your opponent will move. j3 links into air spear, which can be useful in air to airs or jump ins (It's not an option select though, so be careful on block).
His dash has a decent amount of recovery before you can attack again; but since the Run option has now opened up the MKX movement metagame, you can do things like run-up spaced b3, run-up f3 etc. which cover a LOT of space in a short amount of time (and once you've established that, a short run-cancel into b2, etc.). Mixing the threat of the long-range overhead, with the naked Kunais, and run into b3~kunai, etc. gives him a good degree of space control. And when you read that your opponent wants to move, then you can hit them with the MB Tele for a combo.
GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Enhanced/MB Kunai throws 3 exploding, low-hitting Kunai onto the ground, where they'll stay for about 2.5 seconds or until you release the 1 button. At this point, it seems like you can also release the Kunai while in either block or hitstun, which is cool. I'm sure people will find lots of setups with EN kunai into overhead with various timings. If your opponent is attempting to move or attack when the Kunai's come out, you can just let them explode quickly.
Update: Of the 3 Kunai planted by MB Kunai, the front two won't give you a significant popup on hit -- but the back two will; so you're able to quickly connect a teleport for combo if the back two Kunai hit. This also means that strings/normals with slight pushback on hit (like f12 and b3) will allow you to continue the combo with MB kunai into tele.
f12 is a solid advancing footsie string (think about some of Liu Kang's footsie normals in MK9) that's slightly negative on block by itself, and can continue into f12,2+4. The first hit of f12,2+4 can be cancelled out of, so you can do things like f12,2+4 (1st hit)~Close Kunai, or cancel the first hit into regular tele on hit for a juggle. Although f12,2+4 alone is high negative on block, it also links to specials after the full 2 hits of 2+4; so you can do things like f12,2+4~MB tele and it'll combo.
The second hit of the 2+4 part is overhead -- so cancelling the first hit into Close Kunai vs. letting the 2nd hit go through and cancelling to something like MB tele is something your opponent will have to watch out for.
You're also able to do f1,2+4, which ends the same way. So I imagine that once people get familiar with the character, there will be all kinds of shenanigans mixing up f12, f1,2+4, f12,2+4 etc. cancelled into different things at different points to keep opponents off-guard when blocking.
f21 seems to be his other good starter -- although it doesn't quite have the range of f12, it's only slightly negative on block by itself (listed at -2) and decently easy to confirm into enhanced grapple, enhanced tele, or whatever you want.
His 7-frame uppercut is great for an easy anti-air. I tried a lot of his other standing normals, but they were pretty handily stuffed by various jumping attacks. Unlike b21, b11 and 21 *will* anti-air, but they're fairly slow.
Update: As far as air-to-air, he can link j1/j3 to regular teleport, and then juggle afterwards.
334 ends in a safe overhead with a hard/untechable knockdown; so your opponent would have to guess between that and 33~close kunai hitting low.
Fist Flurry (his advancing flurry of punches) has armor in its enhanced version -- but it's highly punishable on block. So you can use it sometimes to armor out of of a jam, but you need to consider when you'll throw it out.
Spear Ryu is the equivalent of Batman's grapple from Injustice -- and similarly, highly punishable and best used extremely wisely or as a combo extender and/or ender. The enhanced version pops your opponent up for a juggle (so you can run forward to juggle, or use the regular teleport to continue the combo).
MOVING FORWARD:
So again, this is by no means a guide to the character, but it's a start. Feel free to blow me up, point out things that are wrong, etc. and I'll make corrections; but hopefully this will help some of you who are thinking about picking him up.
I'm looking forward to seeing all the great information and tech people spin out with him in the next couple weeks. I'm sure some of you may be farther along and already have a list of setups, etc.
Post and let us know what you find!
Last edited:
Front Punch (Square by default on PS4, X on XB1)
Back Punch
Front Kick
Back Kick
