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Ways to improve Shang Tsung

CanoCano

CanoCano

Noob
There's been talks about buffing Shang for a while now, but i've hardly seen anyone agree on what exactly should be buffed outside of removing the gap in Board Breaker and making Young Form zoning good (but never specifying how), so i wanted to make this thread to see what the common opinion on Shang buffs is

Plus discussing character balance is very fun so long as it doesn't get heated

Here's the list of changes i would make to not only buff Shang but to make him more interesting to play as or against
Universal:
  • Pulse Check (S124) is now special cancelable on hit
  • Deceptive Slash/Spurned Man (B1) now dodges Highs from frame 1 to 20, Cancel Window up to 28f from 20f, startup up to 12f from 10f
  • Fatal Incision (B2) now travels further, startup up to 17f from 14f
  • Lovetap (B22) now hits Mid
  • Laid Low (B223) is now 0 on block
  • Femurder (D3) is now 0 on block
  • A God's Whimsy (YM.F3) input is now B3, also available in OM
  • Kneedler (F4) startup down to 11f from 13f, Cancel Window up to 27f from 23f
  • Perfect Form (FB4) can be canceled into off of specials on hit
  • Form Stealer (FDB4) can be canceled into off of specials on hit and gives the EX damage buff by default
Young Man:
  • Snake Oil (YM.B12) now hits High
  • Die-ving For It (YM.F43) Cancel Window up to 28f from 24f and Comboable Hitstun up to 31f
  • Spin Kick (YM.F434) now hits High, startup up to 24f from 20f
  • Straight Skull (YM.DF1) damage up to 7% from 6%, Enhanced Straight Skull (YM.DF1+BL) damage up to 8% from 6%
  • Double Skull (YM.DB1) damage up to 9% from 8.7%, Enhanced Double Skull (YM.DB1+BL) damage up to 10% from 9%
  • Triple Skull (YM.DBF1) damage up to 11% from 10.5%, Enhanced Triple Skull (YM.DBF1+BL) damage up to 12% from 11%
  • Spinning Spikes (YM.DF2) damage up to 12% from 8.557%, Enhanced Spinning Spikes (YM.DF2+BL) damage up to 14% from 10.925%, both of them can be canceled into Form Stealer (FDB4) on hit
  • Bed Of Spikes (YM.DB3) and Enhanced Bed Of Spikes (YM.DB3+BL) can now be canceled into Air Specials on hit and whiff, block advantage down to -15 meterless and +1 EX
Old Man:
  • Operation (OM.B12) dodges Highs from frame 1 to 20
  • Goal Kick (OM.F3) startup down to 15f from 19f
  • Board Breaker (OM.F41) damage up to 5% from 3%, startup down to 14f from 17f
  • Nerve Endings (OM.F412) now hits Mid
  • Age Before Beauty (OM.F41214) now hits Mid, Block Advantage up to -3 from -6
  • Ground Skull (All Meterless Versions) induce greater gravity scaling if used more than twice in a combo
  • Ground Skull (All EX Versions) damage up to 9% from 7.718%
  • Injection (OM.DB3) can be canceled into Enhanced Up Skull (YM.DB2) at the cost of 1 Bar after the first hit, morphs Shang back to YM when done
  • Enhanced Injection (OM.DB3+BL) damage down to 6% from 6.2%
New Moves:
  • Up Skull (YM.DB2) is added, a projectile that can be comboed and dash canceled out of, can be guided by pressing Down (Mid) and Up (Far) during start up but it hits Close by default
  • Enhanced Up Skull (YM.DB2+BL) is a projectile that works the same way as its meterless version except it tracks the opponent
Up Skull notes:
  • You can dash cancel out of the startup after 14f and be active while the projectile is still falling, dash cancel combos are possible
  • It takes about 40f for the projectile itself to actually land and it has no Auto Block frames
  • The meterless version cannot be dash canceled out of twice in a combo, you need to do the EX version to have two dash cancels in a combo
  • When it hits an Airborne opponent they get relaunched like with Quan Chi's air projectiles
Up Skull data:
  • Does 10% damage, meterless hits Overhead, EX hits Mid
  • 14f Startup with Dash Cancel, 40f Startup until projectile lands, 20f Active, 17f Recovery, 85f Cancel Window, +35-55 Hit Advantage without Dash Cancel (depends on which frame it hits), +6-26 Block Advantage without Dash Cancel (depends on which frame it hits)

How would y'all buff Shang Tsung?
 
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UghGetOuttaHere

UghGetOuttaHere

Number Cruncher. Jack of All Trades.
Your buffs would no doubt make him better, but I would lean more into his identity. Keep base Shang as is, and buff his gimmicks. Id give Shang the ability to swap from old to young or out of his morph during hitstun/juggled for 1 bar. And if possible i would give him the ability to transform into 2 or 3 randomly selected fighters. But he would have to achieve certain goals to unlock them. Better yet, the last moveset you unlock could be chosen.
 
Poopdawg

Poopdawg

Noob
I like some of your changes but think buffing his generic stuff wouldn’t be that interesting since his buttons are already pretty good. I think to get more people playing him is to allow a bigger buffer or allow for a special move cancel after close or medium ground skull on hit. This makes his bnbs consistent and makes his mid range zoning scary since it would be easier to confirm. Might be broken but they could just nerf the damage to compensate.
 
CanoCano

CanoCano

Noob
UghGetOuttaHere said:
Your buffs would no doubt make him better, but I would lean more into his identity. Keep base Shang as is, and buff his gimmicks. Id give Shang the ability to swap from old to young or out of his morph during hitstun/juggled for 1 bar. And if possible i would give him the ability to transform into 2 or 3 randomly selected fighters. But he would have to achieve certain goals to unlock them. Better yet, the last moveset you unlock could be chosen.
Click to expand...
I'd love for Klassic morphs to be back so hell yeah, so long as the requirements from the random fighters aren't super strict or anything
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I think it would be cool if Bed of Spikes and EX had less recovery on hit and whiff. The block frames are fine, but it could be easier to combo from and be a better proactive anti air.

B12 in both forms is a little underwhelming

I don't think he needs a lot of help though. His biggest problem in my experience was the Sub Zero kameo, which is then counter picked by Sub Zero kameo himself, which I just don't want to play
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
Hoping Movado lets him convert off of alot of things more consistently, and getting a mixup with the mine could be nice. That way the risk of doing ground skulls can potentially be worth it in his tough matchups.

There's a laundry list of quality-of-life stuff that would be great but I'm honestly hoping for a rework. You can't really make this version of Shang balanced with how near instant his ground skulls are.
 
PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Noob
His young form needs an expanded moveset,i feel like a fish out of water with young shang,literally only usefull for straight skulls switch zoning
 
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